What is a Celebrant?

Welcome to the first episode of Ask a Celebrant with Berni and Dinah. 

In this episode, we are looking at what a Celebrant is and does. We're often asked what type of work we do and what that means. 

We are both Independent Celebrants and we're delighted to be bringing you a monthly conversation where we answer your questions. 

Do send us your questions for future episodes. We'd love to answer all your questions about anything in your life that you're celebrating.  From namings to vow renewals, weddings and elopements to life celebrations and memorials, we'll be covering it all,
You can find out more about us by visiting our websites or connecting with us on Social Media - all details below.

Berni - https://www.bernib.co.uk/ 

Dinah https://www.gratefulcelebrant.com/ 

Contact Berni at:  https://www.bernib.co.uk/

Contact Dinah at: https://www.gratefulcelebrant.com/

Transcript

Dinah Liversidge: 0:21

Hello, everybody. I'm Dinah And this is Bernie.

Berni Benton: 0:25

Hi everyone. Hi.

Dinah Liversidge: 0:27

We're really excited that you have joined us for the first episode of ask a celebrant

Berni Benton: 0:36

<laugh> I know I'm so excited. Honestly, cannot tell you how, um, driven. I felt since we decided that we were gonna do this and, and, and set up the plan and how many people have spoken to me or connected with me. And, and I know you too saying, I'm really glad you're doing this. Can't wait to hear it. You know, we've got so many questions and so is, uh, yeah. Really excited and spending time with you. That's my favorite thing is that we get to hang out

Dinah Liversidge: 1:04

Exactly and call it work.

Berni Benton: 1:07

Yeah. Yeah.<laugh>,

Dinah Liversidge: 1:08

It's interesting. Isn't it? How many people do actually, when you first say to people, whether you are networking or whether you're just chatting with somebody you've met and they say, so what do you do? And when we tell them I'm a celebrant, I often find people kind of go completely blank looking. Yeah. Yeah. And there's this pause where, you know, they're thinking, okay, so is it just me who hasn't got a clue what that is? Yeah. Yeah.

Berni Benton: 1:36

And, and some people don't even ask. They just, oh, that's good. So yeah. So what, what, what made you be there? But they, and then hope. I think, I think what they do is they're hoping, like when you can't remember someone's name, you're hoping that if you carry on the conversation,<laugh> there, some clue will pop up and then they won't have to what they think make themselves look stupid, which of course is not to ask what it is. Why would anyone know if it hasn't been relevant in their life? And to be honest, you know, I mean, we are celebrants. So we hang out with celebrants and we spend lots of time with people who are looking for celebrants. So we forget that it's a fairly new industry and that its context is still evolving and, and, um, and people don't know what, what we do or what we can. And we all kind of do different aspects of, of the role of, uh, officiating life celebrations, which is basically what, what we do as a, as a holistic thing. But it's, you know, it's more than that. And it's so much so varied. So I, so I think, um, we need to clarify that for people,

Dinah Liversidge: 2:43

I think you're right. And, you know, I love the, the whole philosophy in life. That the only stupid question is the unanswered one. So I love it when people say to me, what's that? What are you doing? And as soon as I explain it to people, I also love how many people I meet say, oh, that sounds like a fabulous job. Yeah. I, I say, I'd love to do that. Yeah. Or if they're people who know me or have worked with me historically, they say, oh, I can totally see why you chose to do that. And I, I

Berni Benton: 3:18

Get that all the time. I really get it. Once I get past that bit, where I told you this makes you laugh, w as m ost me laugh as well. W hen several times I've said to people, I'm a celebrant. And there's been that pause where you a re thinking they're working out what a celebrant is, what does that actually mean? And they say, when did you decide to be c elibate?<laugh> makes me laugh every t ime, every time. I d unno much about celibacy. I know far more about Celebrabrants

Dinah Liversidge: 3:54

The other thing I'd love to clarify by for people a bit too, is that there's a lot more than one type of celebrant. Absolutely. I, I have a lovely friend in Germany, Chris, who I think you know

Berni Benton: 4:08

I do know her, Chris Menzel.

Dinah Liversidge: 4:08

Menzel, that's right. And,, Chris asked me in a lovely Christmas card, you know, I've looked up celebrant because I'm really interested in what you and Bernie are talking about. And I'm not sure there's an equivalent profession in Germany. Could you find out for me, could you tell me if there is, and this kind of highlights that the role of celebrant is different in different countries?

Berni Benton: 4:35

Yeah. Well, absolutely well, and different different countries within the UK, even different

Dinah Liversidge: 4:43

Because in Scotland, the role of a wedding celebrant is to carry out a marriage, isn't it?

Berni Benton: 4:50

Absolutely. Whereas

Dinah Liversidge: 4:51

We create wedding ceremonies or celebrations. Yeah. And it's not legal marriage.

Berni Benton: 4:59

No. So at the moment, until the white paper and the law, the, the, the wedding law reform bill is reviewed in Wales in England, if you can get married with a celebrant, you can have the most wonderful celebration that is, is absolutely bespoken fitting to you as, and your personalities, but the boring, legal signing, the form has to be done with an efficient at county hall, whereas you,

Dinah Liversidge: 5:24

Or of course, in a religious setting

Berni Benton: 5:26

Or in a religious setting, which is difficult for, um, a lot of people who might not want to, um, who are not religious or who are in a multi-faith relationships. So, you know,

Dinah Liversidge: 5:40

It more and more is certainly the kinda people we work

Berni Benton: 5:43

Isn't that? No, I mean, if you are, if you are of one faith and your partner is another, sometimes the faith will prohibit the wedding in, in their particular church or, or religious building. So Absolut,

Dinah Liversidge: 5:59

And, and I'm really pleased to see there's been a delay with the, uh, re the reporting back. And the decision from the commission, you were looking at this because they are really, really looking now in detail at the role of independent celebrants. Yeah. And how important we all feel that is in, in making their decision about who going forward will be allowed to conduct a legal wedding now.

Berni Benton: 6:28

Absolutely. I think that's that thanks to the power of the, uh, the trade association association of independence, celebrants, and the other, um, bodies that support us as independent celebrants, making our voice heard, because I really genuinely don't think they deliberately avoided independent celebrants. No, I, they just did not in, in their, you know, have the knowledge that humanists, which are, non-religious no religious, the celebrants and independence, which are, are all options, collective options, mixed options, celebrants that we even existed. And that there was a difference. So I think, you know, um, there is a need, you know, if, if you don't know what a celebrant is and we still haven't told you, so you may still not know what a celebrant is. Um, I don't feel ignorant about it because the, you know, the, the industry doesn't properly know what a celebrant is and does and can do and, and should be able to do so. Um, yeah.

Dinah Liversidge: 7:29

So maybe we should tell people then what officially, what is a celebrant?

Berni Benton: 7:35

Yes. Yeah. Do you wanna start that process go on? Cause we talked,

Dinah Liversidge: 7:39

If you look at various different sources, the wording of course is very slightly different of course, but, but an independent celebrant is a person who will have received training. Uh, and that's something that's really important to point out here is celebrants are some of the highest trained people in the industry. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that they will have received training very often over a very long period of time. And they'll have had to do practice ceremonies and, and prove that they are competent in many ways. And having done that training, they can carry out a ceremony or a celebration, hence the word celebrate, celebrate mm-hmm<affirmative> somebody's life. So perhaps they've died and you are doing a life celebration. Mm-hmm<affirmative> somebody's love. So perhaps a, a hand fasting, some form of unity ceremony, a wedding blessing or ceremony. And of course, those can be absolutely unique and, and there are some exquisitely, beautiful ceremonies crafted by celebrants naming ceremonies. And these I'm really pleased. You and I have spoken about this a lot. Bernie, we are really thrilled with the way that's going, because a lot of the time you say naming ceremony and people think of a baby and birth. Yeah. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, this can be so much more than that. This is a time when we are looking at things like naming ceremonies to celebrate two families. Now hearing a, a family name, absolutely. A person going through gender reassignment and getting that really exquisitely beautiful first document that comes the official document with their new name. Yeah. Emotional. When I, I hear of these things and to celebrate that with a ceremony. Yeah. And there are so many reasons why you might celebrate the change or, or, you know, taking on of a new name. And again, a celebrant is a person who can do that.

Berni Benton: 9:47

Absolutely. I think it takes, it takes, um, a celebrate and it makes it one step, more official and special. You get the opportunity to focus on not just a general, the general joy, but on the, on the story that, that, that got you to that point. And I think with, you know, I mean, you've got the mainstream, um, weddings and funerals and, and all of those things. But even within that, a as celebrants, we make each and every celebration, commemoration, unique and different, you know, it can be anywhere. It can be as longer as short as you want. It can include absolutely anything when you are involved in a celebrant and what we, what we are certainly am at. I, and I know you too, what, what, what most celebrants want? And the reason we are here is so that we can articulate and express the personalities of those people. We are celebrate. And those connected to those people who were, oh, we are celebrating in, in something in a moment it's like, it's like a, it's like a chapter start chapter N full stop. It's a, you know, it's a breather in that life story where you recognize the significance of that moment. We get to create that or help create that and articulate that for, for individuals and families. And it's just the most amazing life choice, vocation.

Dinah Liversidge: 11:29

It's humbling. Isn't it? I, I, I think, um, I know you and I both have, have this enormous, a affinity with end of life with yeah. Helping people to market and express it in a way that feels authentic. Yeah. Um, I, I have often said to people, I, I wrote a blog about this, you know, we, we all, and you, I know are doing a really clever new thing on planning for your own funeral and how you want that to look. Yeah. I, I think often we forget that the people who are really going to need support at that time often have had no say in what you think you want for the end of your life. Absolutely. And to include your loved ones and to be able to say, to loved ones, if you do what they wanted and we look after you and we add what you need. Yeah. We are not disrespecting their issues. We're absolutely stepping in and looking after you. Yeah. Cause they're not here to do that.

Berni Benton: 12:36

Yeah. I mean, my whole focus when I, when I, I think when, when I trained as a celebrate and, you know, because I did your course to, to train as a celebrate and diner is an amazing teacher and men hall. So if you ever want to, to, um, find out more, have a chat with diner because she articulates things absolutely beautifully. I big you up there, but it it's true. It's true. You know, I, you know, I feel exactly like that, but it's, I, you know, when I, when I came to you, I said, what I really want to do, it's focus, not at exclusively, but, but predominantly on, uh, end of life and funerals and memorials and, and, and supporting families, um, who are saying goodbye and helping them because, you know, death, isn't the end, it's the beginning of another chapter where you are having to navigate your life without that person present anymore. And so that the farewell and that community that you bring together for that farewell. And for that to share that grief is really important step in the process of overcoming and managing that grief into the future, because you have got to navigate life without person. And, and I have found, and, and, and it, I find it really touching is when you, when you're invited into a family to help them write their farewell, and they start sharing the most intimate stories of how they met and how the person impacted their life. And they tell you their story, you become another person of that person in your memory, and you begin sharing that person's stories and that person's life affects your view into the future as well. So you take on something of every single family that you've had the honor of, of respecting in, in death as well. And I just think that that is just one, you know, it is just, it's wonderful that their legacy ex extends that and that you really get to understand and know that family, um, and hopefully help them a little,

Dinah Liversidge: 14:45

Absolutely massively help them. There's a beautiful expression, um, where you talk about how it takes a village to raise a child. Yeah. I also think it takes a village to lay a child to rest.

Berni Benton: 14:57

Absolutely.

Dinah Liversidge: 14:59

At what age we die, we are all somebody's child. Yeah,

Berni Benton: 15:03

Absolutely.

Dinah Liversidge: 15:04

That, that, that has the ripple effect, the lives that every one of us has touched. Yeah. It it's such a privilege, isn't it, to work with a family and say, so how do we honor that? How do we authentically say you, you made a difference in our lives.

Berni Benton: 15:23

Yes. And every single person does make a difference. Everyone is unique and everyone is, is just exactly how they should be. Yep. And, and if they have had impact on one other person and they definitely will have, then that is a value. And if, you know, and, and it's really, it's really good to get into that, that, that conversation with families and help them. But I, you know, I mean, you touched on it before. I'm also doing the pre-death focusing on that now, because what I have found as I've become a funeral celebrant and a celebrant is that people may have, or may not have left a will in instructions. So there is that the end of life, there may be some clear instructions on what the person was hoping for. Um, or there may be none. And in either way that can bring up problems because what, uh, how a person wants to be remembered may not be how the people left behind remember them. So, so it might not assist. And as you said, you know, combining what matters for the people left behind with what was important to the person who has pass is really important. And I'm trying to encourage, um, death planning, and I've got a package that's in, in its infancy called, uh, DIY before you die, where I'm going to be sitting with families and, and individuals, and then perhaps with their families and discussing what they want and the impact of what they want on the people left behind and how they will feel about what that, what they have chosen. So that there's, and also sharing all the options, because there is so many options out there that, um, people are completely unaware of, but we have got this, um, structure for funerals and deaths that has become habit, but it's not actually what you have to do. It's just, what is the norm has become the norm relatively

Dinah Liversidge: 17:25

Since the Victorian times. Yeah,

Berni Benton: 17:27

Yeah. Ver yeah, it's, it's, yeah. It, you know, it used to be very normal for your loved one to be in their home after death. Absolutely. And for you to be able to have time with them and visit with them and sit with them. I think it was probably the, um, introduction of, of central heating that made that harder to happen probably, but it, but it still possible. And it is still relevant to people to be able to do that. And I think not, I think there was a ho horrific statistic that about 97% of people don't die in their home. They die in hospitals. It's really high. I may have got that, that statistic wrong, but it's, it's incredibly high because we are used to, um, we're in a society where it is easier for those outside of the family to manage it. If they whip you off to a hospital or a hospice or a care home, and that is rather than, and have the infrastructure of helping to care in the home yet, the norm should be totally if that's what people want to, to be able to, to facilitate that, that type of thing. So I'm gonna be talking,

Dinah Liversidge: 18:37

I think part of the reason we've moved away from that is the fear that is generated in just talking about death. And I know, so you have at least one episode, if not two, where we talk about this much Morely.

Berni Benton: 18:52

Yeah. I think, and we, what we bris, don't talk about these things. I'm sure. In, in other countries, the culture is very different or surrounding death and, and death is not such a, an abstract and unspoken thing. We're a bit like, you know, bit like sex. We don't talk about sex. We don't talk about death.<laugh> absolutely. Yeah. But, but we all know that just because you start talking about sex doesn't mean you get more of it talking about dying die, sadly, sadly,

Dinah Liversidge: 19:23

On the first don't we, we need those conversations to be happy so that people don't feel so lost. I, yeah. I, I really feel for families when I first meet them and we sit down and they start by saying, do you know, we never had a conversation about this. We just didn't know what mom wanted, or I don't know what my partner wanted, or we knew we wanted to talk about this, but we never got round to it. Yeah. So I, you and I might give people some ideas on ways to talk about it. Absolutely. One of the things I did with my hub of, well, gosh, we've been together crus. I can't. Yeah. Somehow it's forever.

Berni Benton: 20:03

Since you were

Dinah Liversidge: 20:04

Grownups. I know, since you were children, clearly you were

Berni Benton: 20:07

Children. Indeed.

Dinah Liversidge: 20:08

I dunno how we've been together that long. Cause I'm only 38, but<laugh>, but I actually said to him, we're going out on a date night because we need to talk about death darling. Yes. And he said,

Berni Benton: 20:20

You wrote a blog about that called death darling,

Dinah Liversidge: 20:23

But we did. And you know, actually it was wonderful because we had those conversations that say, I value you so much. Yeah. I am so grateful for you. Yeah. And I want to do this. Right. And by the way, when I have to do this, there needs to be lots to support me because it's gonna be awful. Yeah. And to have had those conversations, which of course were a bit difficult, but also were very funny and full of joy. And what we've achieved together was so calming too. Yeah. And we love people to, to realize it's like, you know, the thing that you are always thinking, I'll deal with that tomorrow. I'll deal with that tomorrow. I, I used to talk about snogging the frog, if somebody gave

Berni Benton: 21:11

<laugh>. I remember that from a lot of conversation we have yeah. Do the thing

Dinah Liversidge: 21:15

I gave you this morning and say kiss, it you'd go. Ooh. But if I said, it's gonna get bigger and bigger until you do, you'd kiss it really quickly. But we do this with conversations about death. Yeah. We'll deal with it. We'll deal with it. And by putting it off, this thing becomes bigger and bigger. Yeah. Until we really feel, we don't know how to start the conversation. Yeah. Um, and although both of us do lots of work as celebrant in other areas and know I've been rabbiting onto you a lot. Cause I was excited. I got my new hand fasting calls today. Yes, absolutely. Um, I do think that the reason both of us became celebrants was connected. Wasn't it too. Yeah. Losing a member of the family. Yeah. Realizing our family didn't really know what the options were. Yeah. You know, for me, literally two days before his funeral, my mom-in-law asked me to do my father-in-law service. Yeah. Because she said, and it was absolutely true. She said he'd hate it. If it was all religious, that would feel really hypocritical to him. Yeah. But as soon as I did the service, almost within minutes, I thought, oh my goodness. I think I'm meant to do this. Yeah. And it's that understanding of you? It, I love that the, you and I both have spent time on stages talking to people mm-hmm<affirmative> um, and it very much feels like you are in the spotlight. Yeah. When I first said to somebody, oh, you know, I'm I'm training, I'm going to become a celebrant. She said, oh, well of course you are speaking will really help won't it you're used to being in the spotlight. And I had to kind of explain, now this is different. Here we stand next to the spotlight. Yeah. We make sure the spotlight is either on a couple yeah. Or an individual or a community or an event. Yeah. What we are there to do is to make sure that you see in that spotlight, the person you love.

Berni Benton: 23:26

Yeah. That's a beautiful description. Diana. It's absolutely true. It's you? It's weird.

Dinah Liversidge: 23:31

We, you're not there to be the one that everybody goes home and says, wow, wasn't she great? No. Yeah. I wanted to do the job of making sure you go in and said, do you know that's exactly what he would've wanted? Or she was like, or I feel like I've had a day with that person. Yeah. And I love that. I love that. It's we're standing beside them. Yeah. But at the same time, I do think the work you and I have done over the years has absolutely yeah. Prepared us to do this.

Berni Benton: 24:04

I think in order to speak, you have to, not only it's, it's not just when your listeners, you know, we, we have to have compassion, empathy, uh, organization skills, all of these skills, but we, we have to listen, but we also have, have to hear the things that haven't been said. So we spend a lot of time really getting to know families and, and, and the, and, and all the bits in between that haven't been, haven't been said, but you can pull out, it's such an honor and a, and a joy to be able to articulate those things for people. And when you write them and they say, oh my God, you have, you've really understood that person. It, it, you, it's a, it's a wonderful thing to, to be able to do, but you are absolutely right. It's not about ours. It's about them. And I always say,

Dinah Liversidge: 24:57

Sorry, carry

Berni Benton: 24:57

On. No, no. I always say to couples and individuals, we always have an, and I, I know you do, you have an initial 20 half minutes, half an hour chat with them. And I always say, now you've met me, go away while I'm not with you. And decide if I am the person you feel can represent you because this is a, we are gonna get to know one another really well. And if you don't feel connected to me, then, then there are a load of, there are so many other celebrants that I can recommend you. And that's the beauty of independent celebrants and the networks we've created. I mean, Wales, we have our, our little network of, of independent celebrants. So we always have other people with other skills and other personalities who, who will, there'll always be somebody for you. And we do get to know you unlike, um, uh, registrars who, and those types of people, you know, who just, who come and deliver a service, we will have dug deep into your FA your, your story, because that's what it's about for us.

Dinah Liversidge: 25:56

And, and actually, I think you've touched on something. A lot of people may also not know about celebrants. Yeah. Which is we can become a celebr to a family, right. The way through the life of that family. Yes. I, I, a few years ago did a really gorgeous outdoor wedding ceremony for a couple who had been married in Australia. And they wanted to do a ceremony in front of family and friends. And we did it in the most gorgeous rose garden. Oh, it was stunning. Yeah. We had fabulous safari tents and YTS in the garden afterwards. It was gorgeous. And first of all, after the ceremony, uh, mum and dad of the bride came up to me and said how much they'd enjoyed it. And that it was their silver wedding in a couple of years. And could we do a vow renewal? And it was wonderful because we did, and I loved it. And I felt like this was a family I already knew. And it was very intimate and very special. And then very tragically and quite suddenly, grandma of the groom passed away. And of course they had the comfort of going to a person me yeah. Who knew had met her. Yeah. Had in fact had a fabulous day with her at the wedding. And so had this beautiful, joyful memory of her that allowed me to help them than if I'd been a stranger.

Berni Benton: 27:21

Yeah. And so, yeah, I think, I think

Dinah Liversidge: 27:23

That a celebrant is gonna be that as people begin to see what we can do to support them.

Berni Benton: 27:29

Yeah. Like a, like a local minister used to be to a family in small communities. They, they would know you, well, your doctor would know you as a family and they would see you through all of your, you know, your births and births and deaths and all the, all the things in between. But we, I, and we do that and we become, we almost become a family friend and part of the family don't we? And it is a, it is a real joy and honor, but that's why it's so important that they people have the opportunity to pick the celebrant that's right. For them, because we are going to get up close and personal. Yeah. Because that's the only way we can probably represent you is if we know your story and we, I guess, I guess we're all inherently quite nosy. We like, how did you meet? Oh my God. You know, we wanna know all the stories and all of, you know, we

Dinah Liversidge: 28:19

Go stories.

Berni Benton: 28:20

We best the best.

Dinah Liversidge: 28:23

I mean, I, I think back to some of the couples that met during the second world war, and I met the most remarkable couple who had been married for 64 years. Wow. And she went, she got up outta the kitchen. She said, hold on a minute, left. The room came back. And she said, these are the letters he wrote me during the, oh,

Berni Benton: 28:46

Oh my goodness.

Dinah Liversidge: 28:47

Letters from her amazing hobby. Who'd been in the R and these letters were tied with beautiful ribbon. And she said to me, they're a bit tatty. I go to them a lot. Oh,

Berni Benton: 29:00

That's so why wonderful

Dinah Liversidge: 29:03

Peak into somebody's life like that and to understand the significance of, of those letters that were written so long ago. Yeah. Meant something to her. Oh, it was, it was beautiful. And moment that this job remarkable.

Berni Benton: 29:22

Yeah. Oh my goodness. It's just, yeah. It's, it's a privilege to be in the role that we're in. And I think that you will find, I think if we, if you look at any celebrate, there's lots of places you can go and search for, celebrate for the type of ceremony you want. But you know, when you go, you, what you will find is that we all see our role as such a privilege. And we all, uh, yeah, we all feel very, get very excited and very, and feel very honored and quite emotional about being given the opportunity to represent the person, the couple, the family, absolutely. The situation.

Dinah Liversidge: 30:06

It's kinda one of those, you know, that beautiful saying, find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life. Yeah. Yeah.

Berni Benton: 30:12

I feels isn't it. It's very hard to dis for me to distinguish when I'm working and when I'm not working. I mean, I'm very lucky cuz I do, I, you know, got the celebrant and the, the artist and the guest house, and it's all about, uh, being creative and connecting with people and hearing snippets of their life as a, as a, as an accommodation provider. You, you as well. Cause you have your, you get to have a snippet into, into a per you know, some people's lives. They come and they tell you all about what brought them to you in a bit about this story you get and you get to share your environment with them. And it's just, you know, it's just, everything is such a joy. We're very lucky people.

Dinah Liversidge: 30:52

Yeah. We really are. We really, really are. So listen, we've chatted for a bit today and it was our first episode. Yes. I know. We'd love to get people to actually ask us questions wouldn't we? Absolutely.

Berni Benton: 31:05

I mean, that's the whole point we're here. We, we want what we want, I think from this podcast, I'm sure it's the same for both of us. We've spoke, spoken length is to answer your questions. So if you are a, if you are an, a jewel or a couple or a family or a celebrant or in a different country, and you have a question that will start a topic of conversation for us, then we plan to do this every month. So do ask us questions also, we'd be interested in what you think of our format, how you would like us to represent you. I mean, we are, we will take constructive criticism, be kind. We don't mind to quit a criticism as long as it's, uh, yeah.<laugh>, it's constructive. So, you know, tell us what you think about this podcast and all the associated things that we are gonna be putting out alongside, which will be videos and, um, uh, and editorial and, uh, blogs and, and, uh, you know, feedback because this is, we're doing this for you as well as to get together and have some time together. We're doing it for you. Totally

Dinah Liversidge: 32:12

Burning as always. It's been a complete joy.

Berni Benton: 32:14

Absolutely.

Dinah Liversidge: 32:15

Thank you so much for doing this. I love that we had this idea. Of course it involved cake and I think hot chocolate. Okay.

Berni Benton: 32:24

<laugh> yeah. Did, yes. There was a lot of hot chocolate with, um, with cream and marshmallows and, and sprinkles and things

Dinah Liversidge: 32:32

And a nasty tea rooms in Cland make about the best hot chocolate. I've good

Berni Benton: 32:37

Job. Do it in person. We'll have to make

Dinah Liversidge: 32:42

That's. Well, thank you. My lovely. And thank you everybody for joining us. Thanks everyone. And, uh, do, as we've said, do make contact, you'll see all our contact details below and we look forward to hearing from you all. Absolutely.